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Took delivery of our truck from Koons Ford Silver Spring this morning! It's a 2019 Lariat 4WD 6.5-ft bed with lots of options - ordered to my wife's exacting specifications.
From toptobottom's outstanding Price Negotiation Assistant (PNA) spreadsheet:
Total MSRP (Blue Box on Window Sticker): $63,640
Dealer Invoice: $59,383
Dealer Cost (Break-Even): $57,373
Dealer Doc/Processing Fee: $300
Total Sales/Cash Price: $57,683
True Dealer Discount Percentage (TDDP): 9.60%
I'm pretty happy with that as a factory order, and while I'm not thrilled about the $300 doc fee, my $3,500 PCO and 0% for 72 months more than made up for it. Made the initial contact with the dealer via the Costco program, dealt with the commercial manager who made the initial offer of $2,000 under invoice (which they did meet), and had a quick and painless pass through F&I.
And here she is! Magma Red is even more awesome in person.
Just a slight clarification with this deal. This did not come in at $2,000 below Invoice because that number omitted the $300 Doc Fee. It would have been $1,700 below Invoice, however, as I've pointed out in numerous posts throughout this thread, I have knowledge through communication outside of this forum that this deal also included a trade-in which is not and actually cannot be quantified by any of us as to how much was lost in the trade. Therefore, this NEW Truck order does represent the correct TDDP of 9.6%. It is likely to be much lower. The numbers in this deal cannot be relied upon and do not conform with the actual direction of this thread.
Regardless, you're obviously happy with the deal and your new truck so congrats and enjoy it!
So you had a PCO that expired and called Ford a couple months later and they re-upped it? That's pretty cool.
No you can't make that assumption without knowing the true facts. We do not know that his Ford Direct brochure issued PCO had expired. When it was issue dto his Wife, it may have been right after 4/1/19 when the new PCO campaign began and had expiration dates set with 7/1/19. A few have reported and I myself have been involved with getting PCO's extended or renewed without success. The actual true Marketing Agency Reps stated these are only issued based on specific data and after they are issued by the programmed rebate software, it cannot be changed.
Making a staement like you did only creates a viral rumor which does not help others.
Seeing some good deals this weekend. Here is mine. Agate Black Limited.
Total MSRP (Blue Box on Window Sticker): $74,120.00 Destination: 1,595.00 Dealer Doc/Processing Fee: $599.00 Agreed to Sales Price: $65,900.00 Total Sales/Cash Price (with all the BS): $66,499.00 I went for the 0% 72 months.
Does not include $1250 PCO. They were very happy when I whipped it out, said "this makes it even better".
You haven't provided documentation (Window Sticker & Buyers Order/Purchase Agreement) for us to verify the numbers and quantify your True Dealiar Discount Percentage (TDDP). Without this, your post does not contribute to the ongoing direction this thread has taken as an apples to apples comparison for others to rely on.
If you still have your paperwork available, you can take pictures of the Window Sticker provided online by Ford which has the 'Build' Date info and if not, take a pic of the sticker with Manufacture Date inside the drivers door frame. You can also just shoot a photo of the entire Numbers section on the Buyers Order/Purchase Agreement so as not to reveal your personal info. However, a Zip Code will be needed.
Although, I'm sure you're enjoying your new truck and wish you the best with it!
Paid $51,500, cash. They were not happy about it, but I caught them trying to get cute and bait/switch.
You're post is very vague.You haven't provided documentation (Window Sticker & Buyers Order/Purchase Agreement) for us to verify the numbers and quantify your True Dealiar Discount Percentage (TDDP). Without this, your post does not contribute to the ongoing direction this thread has taken as an apples to apples comparison for others to rely on.
If you still have your paperwork available, you can take pictures of the Window Sticker provided online by Ford which has the 'Build' Date info and if not, take a pic of the sticker with Manufacture Date inside the drivers door frame. You can also just shoot a photo of the entire Numbers section on the Buyers Order/Purchase Agreement so as not to reveal your personal info. However, a Zip Code will be needed.
Hey everyone, been reading this thread for a few hour and have a few questions. Where do I find the new vehicle PNA? I see screenshots of it everywhere but not the actual spreadsheet that I can fill my numbers in. Also how can I find what other rebates apply to me the trucks I'm looking at, specifically 2018 xlt's. (I plan to drive the truck for many years so the depreciation hit isn't a huge deal to me.) on the ford website it shows 3500 of retail customer cash and 1500 of bonus customer cash. is there a ford loyalty rebate? trade in assistance rebate? vin specific rebate? any way to check this other than asking the dealer, I don't see any way on ford.com. my zip is 43220. What % dealer discount have people been seeing on 2018 xlts this late into 2019?
Thanks for the people that have contributed to this thread over the past few years it's an amazing resource.
I'm a great advocate that life without humor just misses the mark. I thought it was funny, but no, I can't see my image as taking a gun to a Gnome over a truck deal. You gotta know where to draw the line and just land a blow to the groin by walking away from a bad deal. Facetiously, that's what hurts them more than a bullet.
By stating you read for a few hours and have questions, I'll just have to answer with you not coming anywhere near investing the time you need to gain the value of many more posts in this thread that would not only answer your questions, but make you a negotiator that knows most everything needed to maximize your savings and drive off with an outstanding deal for your area of purchase. Read from my 1st post #3051 to at least #6000 to answer those questions. Also, reading my signature line would easily have given you a clue how to get the PNA.
Right now the 2018 leftover numbers are over the place with percentages that Dealiars will let them go for.
Newbie here...Am I doing this right? Something seems off. Sorry, made my own as I didn't want to wait for access to the sheet.
I usually send out PNA's very quickly and if not you'd have for the next morning.
Originally Posted by bdalton
The Sales Gnome didn't present the numbers too well in this quote. Your Sales price is wrong so it throws off the TDDP calcs substantially. Because you didn't get the PNA or notice it on the posted ones, you can't have rebates in the Actual Sales Price. Also, the quote shows you the freight being added AFTER the Sales price which you need to add back to their Sales Price. This has been explained throughout numerous posts how MD & VA Dealiars have adopted a deceptive practice of number manipulation. Here's what your deal looks like which is still a good deal by all means.
Am looking forward in coming days to see the deals people got during the Memorial Day blitz, should be some interesting prices.
Here’s my datapoint – a new 2018 2wd XLT 302a Scab I bought back on April 29th. It took me this long to post because the dealership royally screwed up the state/local taxes (mine was an out-of-state purchase, I live in MS and bought in LA). But eventually (after 3+ weeks) have got it squared away with them (a hefty refund to me) and all is good.
For me, the purchase almost met all my goals, and I was OK with the OTD price. My primary goal was to ‘self-fund’ the new purchase with money from the sale (not trade-in) of my previous ride (2016 2wd XLT 302a Screw). I didn’t quite make it (new 2018 OTD price was $268.00 more than what I got for my 2016) but it was close. At first blush the ~19% TDDP looks great – but – it is a left-over 2018, depreciation etc. So, it’s more of a good deal vs a great deal. But I’m happy.
I now have a cautionary tale for those making an out-of-state purchase where the dealer is using “Dealer Doc LLC” software to figure both state AND local taxes on an out-of-state purchase. I’ve bought out-of-state before (twice), both those times paid only state sales tax through the dealer and had to deal with/pay for local (county) tags and registration/title/etc. fees separately at the tax office when I got it registered. This was the first time I had to pay for all of it through the out-of-state dealership, it did not go well. In a nutshell, if your state of residence and/or local taxes/fees for a new vehicle purchase are somewhat ‘complex’, then visit or talk to your friendly local tax assessor first and have a very good idea of how taxes/fees are being calculated before you consummate any deal.
This was my 5th attempt at a purchase, which started in early March 2019.
· Ended up walking away twice (once in March, once in April, different sales contacts) on the same truck (2018 XL Scab) at a Houston TX dealership. They kept trying to capture my $1000 PCO I had at the time for their own account. Different sales mgrs each time but same result – attempted thievery.
· Walked again in Mid-April, literally at the last minute, from a Harvey LA dealer. That time a 2019 XLT 302a Scab. DD, rebates all good. And they did have my $1000 PCO on the sales order (more on that later). But then they got greedy, tried to run over $2000 in deal add-ons by me (N2 in tires, wheel locks, wheel liners, VIN etch, window tint). After another day of back-and-forth, I still couldn’t get them below even $1000 for that crap, so I quit the deal.
· Walked again at end-April on a nicely optioned 2019 XL RCSB from an Opelousas LA dealer. DD, rebates all good. Zero dealer add-ons charge (even though truck did have a spray-in bedliner). So, I said “great here’s my $1000 PCO, make this final change to sales order, let’s finish the deal”. They frowned, said my $1000 PCO ‘conflicted’ with a Ford Owner Loyalty $1000 rebate, I could have one or the other but not both. Bummer. This was my bad, I didn’t realize the Owner Loyalty was in the same class as the PCO (i.e. not open to general public). I didn’t love the RCSB enough to eat another $1000 so I walked.
· 5th and final attempt was mostly successful. I wasn’t able to get this Breaux Bridge LA dealer to drop their bs $299 VIN etch fee even after I said I’d walk if it wasn’t dropped (they said sorry, have a nice day). Their DD was good so I ended up caving and walked back to sales mgrs desk and finished the deal. They did honor my PCO (no Owner Loyalty rebate on a left-over 2018). And yes, I’m one of ‘those guys’ that gets Ford ESP Premium Care, the dealer quote was $5 more than the same 5 year/75k mile/$100 deductible plan that Flood Ford quoted online, so got it at the dealership (and no sales tax calculated on the ESP plan cost).
Overall this was not a fun experience but as always it was enlightening. Thanks again to toptobottom, the spreadsheet makes tracking purchase metrics very straightforward.
For me there are 2 true-isms in buying a new vehicle from a dealer:
1. You can never ask too many questions.
2. Forget Ronald Reagan’s ‘trust but verify’; you really have to verify first, then trust.
Am looking forward in coming days to see the deals people got during the Memorial Day blitz, should be some interesting prices.
Here’s my datapoint – a new 2018 2wd XLT 302a Scab I bought back on April 29th. It took me this long to post because the dealership royally screwed up the state/local taxes (mine was an out-of-state purchase, I live in MS and bought in LA). But eventually (after 3+ weeks) have got it squared away with them (a hefty refund to me) and all is good.
For me, the purchase almost met all my goals, and I was OK with the OTD price. My primary goal was to ‘self-fund’ the new purchase with money from the sale (not trade-in) of my previous ride (2016 2wd XLT 302a Screw). I didn’t quite make it (new 2018 OTD price was $268.00 more than what I got for my 2016) but it was close. At first blush the ~19% TDDP looks great – but – it is a left-over 2018, depreciation etc. So, it’s more of a good deal vs a great deal. But I’m happy.
I now have a cautionary tale for those making an out-of-state purchase where the dealer is using “Dealer Doc LLC” software to figure both state AND local taxes on an out-of-state purchase. I’ve bought out-of-state before (twice), both those times paid only state sales tax through the dealer and had to deal with/pay for local (county) tags and registration/title/etc. fees separately at the tax office when I got it registered. This was the first time I had to pay for all of it through the out-of-state dealership, it did not go well. In a nutshell, if your state of residence and/or local taxes/fees for a new vehicle purchase are somewhat ‘complex’, then visit or talk to your friendly local tax assessor first and have a very good idea of how taxes/fees are being calculated before you consummate any deal.
This was my 5th attempt at a purchase, which started in early March 2019.
· Ended up walking away twice (once in March, once in April, different sales contacts) on the same truck (2018 XL Scab) at a Houston TX dealership. They kept trying to capture my $1000 PCO I had at the time for their own account. Different sales mgrs each time but same result – attempted thievery.
· Walked again in Mid-April, literally at the last minute, from a Harvey LA dealer. That time a 2019 XLT 302a Scab. DD, rebates all good. And they did have my $1000 PCO on the sales order (more on that later). But then they got greedy, tried to run over $2000 in deal add-ons by me (N2 in tires, wheel locks, wheel liners, VIN etch, window tint). After another day of back-and-forth, I still couldn’t get them below even $1000 for that crap, so I quit the deal.
· Walked again at end-April on a nicely optioned 2019 XL RCSB from an Opelousas LA dealer. DD, rebates all good. Zero dealer add-ons charge (even though truck did have a spray-in bedliner). So, I said “great here’s my $1000 PCO, make this final change to sales order, let’s finish the deal”. They frowned, said my $1000 PCO ‘conflicted’ with a Ford Owner Loyalty $1000 rebate, I could have one or the other but not both. Bummer. This was my bad, I didn’t realize the Owner Loyalty was in the same class as the PCO (i.e. not open to general public). I didn’t love the RCSB enough to eat another $1000 so I walked.
· 5th and final attempt was mostly successful. I wasn’t able to get this Breaux Bridge LA dealer to drop their bs $299 VIN etch fee even after I said I’d walk if it wasn’t dropped (they said sorry, have a nice day). Their DD was good so I ended up caving and walked back to sales mgrs desk and finished the deal. They did honor my PCO (no Owner Loyalty rebate on a left-over 2018). And yes, I’m one of ‘those guys’ that gets Ford ESP Premium Care, the dealer quote was $5 more than the same 5 year/75k mile/$100 deductible plan that Flood Ford quoted online, so got it at the dealership (and no sales tax calculated on the ESP plan cost).
Overall this was not a fun experience but as always it was enlightening. Thanks again to toptobottom, the spreadsheet makes tracking purchase metrics very straightforward.
For me there are 2 true-isms in buying a new vehicle from a dealer:
1. You can never ask too many questions.
2. Forget Ronald Reagan’s ‘trust but verify’; you really have to verify first, then trust.
I know you've been at this for a while. You're one of those that really wound up having to take the long journey using this threads Navigation knowledge and simply having to 'recalculate' when you walked each time. Good for you and in the end you got yourself a heck of a deal on a leftover with some nice rebates to boot which aren't included in the TDDP. I really liked that you were careful to watch your numbers to catch them on their Sales Tax scam. Most Buyers probably never check and that's extra money in their dirty paws because I'm sure they just bury that overage.
Also, thanks for pointing out the Sales Gnomes trying to shank you out of your PCO. It just affirms that one should cloak their information.
I'm glad to finally see you're in a new truck! Good luck!
I have a dealer adding these items to a quote, where do I plug them in on the spreadsheet?
$595 admin, this should be doc processing I assume
$107.95 electronic filing fee (line 62?)
$125 county tax ?
$2 lemon law fee (line 62?)
$46.50 tire and battery fee (line 62?)
I'll post up my sheet when I get it dialed in. I'm trying to use this on a new order and see which dealer can give me the best overall deal.
05-29-2019, 07:09 PM
