F150 Lightning
05-22-2021, 06:36 PM
#501
Also if your not fully off the grid with your own power production and the power goes out for three plus days as has happened in N California and you have electric cars you are stuck,, or get a charge from my powerboost for a fee of course
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Klitz (05-22-2021)
05-22-2021, 06:42 PM
#502
Senior Member
People are afraid of the government taking away their freedom to choose whether or not they can buy an ICE.
They fear that this is the beginning steps down a path towards irrational "green" mandates that will ultimately substantially increase the cost of living for the average joe whilst hindering his ability to traverse the open road as he pleases. That we will be handcuffed by "the grid" and our ability to come and go as we please will be less reliable and efficient than in years past.
A large portion of the difference in the price of electricity vs gasoline wrt driving amounts to taxes paid at the pump per gallon. It would not surprise me if the electricity used to charge electric vehicles gets a tax placed on it in the near future.
They fear that this is the beginning steps down a path towards irrational "green" mandates that will ultimately substantially increase the cost of living for the average joe whilst hindering his ability to traverse the open road as he pleases. That we will be handcuffed by "the grid" and our ability to come and go as we please will be less reliable and efficient than in years past.
A large portion of the difference in the price of electricity vs gasoline wrt driving amounts to taxes paid at the pump per gallon. It would not surprise me if the electricity used to charge electric vehicles gets a tax placed on it in the near future.
The taxes paid at the pump is a hilarious bit of nonsense. Fossil fuel companies are subsidized with billions of tax credits every year. So much that it makes what is spent towards EVs look comical.
"The United States provides anumber of tax subsidiesto the fossil fuel industry as a means of encouraging domestic energy production. These include both direct subsidies to corporations, as well as other tax benefits to the fossil fuel industry.Conservative estimates put U.S. direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry at roughly $20 billion per year; with 20 percent currently allocated to coal and 80 percent to natural gas and crude oil.1European Unionsubsidies are estimated to total 55billion euros annually."
Now, don't think I am overlooking the significant benefit that has provided us in the US. Cheap fuel has long been the underpinning of our society and the automobile and highway system were critical to our countries success. It had its place, tax subsidies or government handouts aren't always bad, despite what some may say, even to oil companies. But it's time to change where that money goes, gradually, as the EV or other alternative fuel technologies evolve.
As for the fuel tax, that is spent on roads and there are already alternative tax systems in place in many states in the country for EV owners or Plug In Hybrid owners where they pay an additional fee to cover the costs that would be accumulated at the pump typically through the tax. So EV owners get the fuel pump tax priced in at tag renewal time. The amount varies by state, and while I don't like it in some cases, like we got charged that fee on our C-Max Energi because it barely met their definition in terms of battery capacity to get the fee, even though that car still burned gas (just had a fill up every other month instead of every other week). Anyway, I am a big supporter of doing away with the fuel tax because it was poorly thought out to begin with. An F-150 does more road damage than a Corvette, but the Corvette may spend more in gas than an F-150 owner (or whatever other much smaller vehicle has comparable fuel mileage to an F-150). Or a RAM TRX will pay way more than a Raptor owner in fuel tax. It makes sense if the tax is about reducing greenhouse emissions, but since it's meant for road maintenance, it's an uneven tax. It's also one that can impact poorer people over those more well off, as someone with less income may be driving a much older and less efficient vehicle, and someone driving a brand new Fusion Hybrid gets to not pay the EV tax at tag renewal, and they don't pay as much at the pump.
Anyway, the point is fossil fuel companies get plenty of that damn socialism from the gubment, your fuel prices are artificially low and you are still paying, just in your annual taxes.
05-22-2021, 06:47 PM
#503
Senior Member
ONCE AGAIN, if the power is out, gas pumps don't work either. It's incredible I have to explain this to people that I imagine have used a gas pump before. And if your counter is "Well I will just drive to where gas pumps are working!", fine, then an EV will do the same as there will almost definitely be an EV charger nearby. My god. I think I have to be done with this thread because it is destroying my faith in humanity.
The following 2 users liked this post by vulnox:
babock (05-22-2021),
[F2C]MaDMaXX (05-23-2021)
05-22-2021, 07:01 PM
#504
ONCE AGAIN, if the power is out, gas pumps don't work either. It's incredible I have to explain this to people that I imagine have used a gas pump before. And if your counter is "Well I will just drive to where gas pumps are working!", fine, then an EV will do the same as there will almost definitely be an EV charger nearby. My god. I think I have to be done with this thread because it is destroying my faith in humanity.
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Klitz (05-22-2021)
05-22-2021, 07:06 PM
#505
Senior Member
ONCE AGAIN, if the power is out, gas pumps don't work either. It's incredible I have to explain this to people that I imagine have used a gas pump before. And if your counter is "Well I will just drive to where gas pumps are working!", fine, then an EV will do the same as there will almost definitely be an EV charger nearby. My god. I think I have to be done with this thread because it is destroying my faith in humanity.
Had to love the arguments when the pipeline crisis was occurring that it showed how we needed even more oil/gasoline supplies. People with electric vehicles had zero issues.
I will personally start out with a plugin hybrid and an electric truck is out because I need to tow things but EVs are the future and thinking they aren't is just sticking your head in the sand.
Last edited by babock; 05-22-2021 at 07:10 PM.
05-22-2021, 07:14 PM
#506
ONCE AGAIN, if the power is out, gas pumps don't work either. It's incredible I have to explain this to people that I imagine have used a gas pump before. And if your counter is "Well I will just drive to where gas pumps are working!", fine, then an EV will do the same as there will almost definitely be an EV charger nearby. My god. I think I have to be done with this thread because it is destroying my faith in humanity.
My friend in Yuba city goes back to that he is still money ahead on energy..But he did not buy the generator nor did he count the food loss.. yet he refuses to buy a power wall because its to expensive ,,,, like so many others they believe so deeply they refuse to see the facts..it will catch up to those people one day.. In the mean time the generator is serviced , fueled and ready for more trips more than likely Yuba City
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Aok2016 (05-22-2021)
05-22-2021, 07:19 PM
#507
Senior Member
I have a friend that lost power In yuba city Calif last year due to wind fire hazard. His solar system is great until its not.. The Subsidies from the power company are running out { Yes the Feds sub Oil company solar companys heck everything it seams } on day three he called and we hooked up my aux generator.. The local gas stations pumps were working for they had generators from previous power loss . To think Electric is going to save the planet because its clean is in fact a pipe dream for now,, we are getting there but until we get better a Battery then its just smoke and mirrors..
My friend in Yuba city goes back to that he is still money ahead on energy..But he did not buy the generator nor did he count the food loss.. yet he refuses to buy a power wall because its to expensive ,,,, like so many others they believe so deeply they refuse to see the facts..it will catch up to those people one day.. In the mean time the generator is serviced , fueled and ready for more trips more than likely Yuba City
My friend in Yuba city goes back to that he is still money ahead on energy..But he did not buy the generator nor did he count the food loss.. yet he refuses to buy a power wall because its to expensive ,,,, like so many others they believe so deeply they refuse to see the facts..it will catch up to those people one day.. In the mean time the generator is serviced , fueled and ready for more trips more than likely Yuba City
05-22-2021, 07:19 PM
#508
You are so right!
Had to love the arguments when the pipeline crisis was occurring that it showed how we needed even more oil/gasoline supplies. People with electric vehicles had zero issues.
I will personally start out with a plugin hybrid and an electric truck is out because I need to tow things but EVs are the future and thinking they aren't is just sticking your head in the sand.
Had to love the arguments when the pipeline crisis was occurring that it showed how we needed even more oil/gasoline supplies. People with electric vehicles had zero issues.
I will personally start out with a plugin hybrid and an electric truck is out because I need to tow things but EVs are the future and thinking they aren't is just sticking your head in the sand.
05-22-2021, 07:27 PM
#509
Senior Member
05-22-2021, 07:36 PM
#510
Senior Member
Yeah, people were afraid of the horseless carriage and electricity in general. Thankfully society hasn't yet been stopped by those that can't conceive of anything beyond their narrow piece of the world.
The taxes paid at the pump is a hilarious bit of nonsense. Fossil fuel companies are subsidized with billions of tax credits every year. So much that it makes what is spent towards EVs look comical.
"The United States provides anumber of tax subsidiesto the fossil fuel industry as a means of encouraging domestic energy production. These include both direct subsidies to corporations, as well as other tax benefits to the fossil fuel industry.Conservative estimates put U.S. direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry at roughly $20 billion per year; with 20 percent currently allocated to coal and 80 percent to natural gas and crude oil.1European Unionsubsidies are estimated to total 55billion euros annually."
Now, don't think I am overlooking the significant benefit that has provided us in the US. Cheap fuel has long been the underpinning of our society and the automobile and highway system were critical to our countries success. It had its place, tax subsidies or government handouts aren't always bad, despite what some may say, even to oil companies. But it's time to change where that money goes, gradually, as the EV or other alternative fuel technologies evolve.
As for the fuel tax, that is spent on roads and there are already alternative tax systems in place in many states in the country for EV owners or Plug In Hybrid owners where they pay an additional fee to cover the costs that would be accumulated at the pump typically through the tax. So EV owners get the fuel pump tax priced in at tag renewal time. The amount varies by state, and while I don't like it in some cases, like we got charged that fee on our C-Max Energi because it barely met their definition in terms of battery capacity to get the fee, even though that car still burned gas (just had a fill up every other month instead of every other week). Anyway, I am a big supporter of doing away with the fuel tax because it was poorly thought out to begin with. An F-150 does more road damage than a Corvette, but the Corvette may spend more in gas than an F-150 owner (or whatever other much smaller vehicle has comparable fuel mileage to an F-150). Or a RAM TRX will pay way more than a Raptor owner in fuel tax. It makes sense if the tax is about reducing greenhouse emissions, but since it's meant for road maintenance, it's an uneven tax. It's also one that can impact poorer people over those more well off, as someone with less income may be driving a much older and less efficient vehicle, and someone driving a brand new Fusion Hybrid gets to not pay the EV tax at tag renewal, and they don't pay as much at the pump.
Anyway, the point is fossil fuel companies get plenty of that damn socialism from the gubment, your fuel prices are artificially low and you are still paying, just in your annual taxes.
The taxes paid at the pump is a hilarious bit of nonsense. Fossil fuel companies are subsidized with billions of tax credits every year. So much that it makes what is spent towards EVs look comical.
"The United States provides anumber of tax subsidiesto the fossil fuel industry as a means of encouraging domestic energy production. These include both direct subsidies to corporations, as well as other tax benefits to the fossil fuel industry.Conservative estimates put U.S. direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry at roughly $20 billion per year; with 20 percent currently allocated to coal and 80 percent to natural gas and crude oil.1European Unionsubsidies are estimated to total 55billion euros annually."
Now, don't think I am overlooking the significant benefit that has provided us in the US. Cheap fuel has long been the underpinning of our society and the automobile and highway system were critical to our countries success. It had its place, tax subsidies or government handouts aren't always bad, despite what some may say, even to oil companies. But it's time to change where that money goes, gradually, as the EV or other alternative fuel technologies evolve.
As for the fuel tax, that is spent on roads and there are already alternative tax systems in place in many states in the country for EV owners or Plug In Hybrid owners where they pay an additional fee to cover the costs that would be accumulated at the pump typically through the tax. So EV owners get the fuel pump tax priced in at tag renewal time. The amount varies by state, and while I don't like it in some cases, like we got charged that fee on our C-Max Energi because it barely met their definition in terms of battery capacity to get the fee, even though that car still burned gas (just had a fill up every other month instead of every other week). Anyway, I am a big supporter of doing away with the fuel tax because it was poorly thought out to begin with. An F-150 does more road damage than a Corvette, but the Corvette may spend more in gas than an F-150 owner (or whatever other much smaller vehicle has comparable fuel mileage to an F-150). Or a RAM TRX will pay way more than a Raptor owner in fuel tax. It makes sense if the tax is about reducing greenhouse emissions, but since it's meant for road maintenance, it's an uneven tax. It's also one that can impact poorer people over those more well off, as someone with less income may be driving a much older and less efficient vehicle, and someone driving a brand new Fusion Hybrid gets to not pay the EV tax at tag renewal, and they don't pay as much at the pump.
Anyway, the point is fossil fuel companies get plenty of that damn socialism from the gubment, your fuel prices are artificially low and you are still paying, just in your annual taxes.
Did the government ban sailboats after steamboats?
Does the government tell you that you must commute to work via train instead of by cab, bus, or bicycle.
I answered the question, "what are people afraid of?".
It would appear to some of us that unlike previous advancements in transportation technology where the government allowed the "market place" dictate peoples options, that the current government has an agenda and is more likely to take a more authoritian approach towards electric vehicles.
It is naive to view this topic through the glasses of "green energy, carbon foot print, etc..." Our economic system is based on growth. In order for big business to succeed, there must exist continuous growth. Large corporations and big government care not about some silly slogans or movements, they care about profit. The fastest avenue to growth is by dominating/leading the business world in EMERGING Technologies. Examples: Rockefeller, Edison, Carnegie, Gates, etc...
Most opposition to the EV discussion is not whether EVs are the future, it is opposition to the premature and artificial forcing of EVs over ICEs onto the American people. Again, reality check, it is not because the government cares about you so much, it is in the name of corporate profits and economic power at the cost of the middle class.