F150 Lightning
05-28-2021, 08:08 PM
#651
Senior Member
05-28-2021, 11:52 PM
#652
Senior Member
You are the one that states mandates.
EV is the first step to autonomous vehicles. That's the future and that's why all the car companies are going electric. The flip phone people will disagree because they can't see the future. They are the ones with their heads in the sand.
As far as subsides go, oil has many magnitudes higher subsidies than electric vehicles.
My suggestion for people that don't want an EV...don't buy one. I kept my flip phone for a year after smart phones came out too!
EV is the first step to autonomous vehicles. That's the future and that's why all the car companies are going electric. The flip phone people will disagree because they can't see the future. They are the ones with their heads in the sand.
As far as subsides go, oil has many magnitudes higher subsidies than electric vehicles.
My suggestion for people that don't want an EV...don't buy one. I kept my flip phone for a year after smart phones came out too!
Last edited by babock; 05-29-2021 at 12:19 AM.
05-29-2021, 09:42 AM
#653
Everything vehicle related is subsidized and funded by goverment. 99% of the roads we drive on are not privatized. If the goverment didn't fund roads, vehicles wouldn't take off.
We invest in new technologies and it expands our economy. We don't want to fall behind and let other countries like China pass us and the middle east will still control gas. The $7,500 won't last forever. To be honest it is nice to get something back from the goverment after all the taxes I pay.
We invest in new technologies and it expands our economy. We don't want to fall behind and let other countries like China pass us and the middle east will still control gas. The $7,500 won't last forever. To be honest it is nice to get something back from the goverment after all the taxes I pay.
05-29-2021, 12:29 PM
#654
Sorry fella, not even close.
EVs enjoy a $7,500 federal tax credit plus additional state subsidies while evading the fuel tax which exceeds a combined dollar a gallon in some states. Petroleum based vehicles pay their own way while subsidizing other government functions.
I don’t begrudge anyone who elects to buy an EV, just don’t use my money to buy one and totally distort the marketplace to force EVs at a large scale despite no environmental basis to do so. The whole system is nonsensical, and to my previous point, is not illustrative of capitalism. The government, not consumers, is radically changing the market based on a false premise that EVs are environmentally superior. Not true! The common person is punished and will not see benefits while others will prosper. That is wrong. The real story are the winners in this scheme and why does the government tilt the marketplace creating winners and losers?
EVs enjoy a $7,500 federal tax credit plus additional state subsidies while evading the fuel tax which exceeds a combined dollar a gallon in some states. Petroleum based vehicles pay their own way while subsidizing other government functions.
I don’t begrudge anyone who elects to buy an EV, just don’t use my money to buy one and totally distort the marketplace to force EVs at a large scale despite no environmental basis to do so. The whole system is nonsensical, and to my previous point, is not illustrative of capitalism. The government, not consumers, is radically changing the market based on a false premise that EVs are environmentally superior. Not true! The common person is punished and will not see benefits while others will prosper. That is wrong. The real story are the winners in this scheme and why does the government tilt the marketplace creating winners and losers?
05-29-2021, 12:34 PM
#655
Everything vehicle related is subsidized and funded by goverment. 99% of the roads we drive on are not privatized. If the goverment didn't fund roads, vehicles wouldn't take off.
We invest in new technologies and it expands our economy. We don't want to fall behind and let other countries like China pass us and the middle east will still control gas. The $7,500 won't last forever. To be honest it is nice to get something back from the goverment after all the taxes I pay.
We invest in new technologies and it expands our economy. We don't want to fall behind and let other countries like China pass us and the middle east will still control gas. The $7,500 won't last forever. To be honest it is nice to get something back from the goverment after all the taxes I pay.
05-29-2021, 12:57 PM
#656
Senior Member
With the highways, the government didn't give people $7500 to buy a vehicle, they built highways(aka infrastructure). Then people took advantage of said highways "infrastructure" by buying vehicles.
Food for thought...
What if the the government passed an infrastructure bill that focused on building a network of EV charging stations (aka infrastructure), and let people buy EVs on their own if they want to take advantage of the newly established "infrastructure."
Giving stimme or handouts to buy EVs has absolutely nothing to do with "infrastructure."
Food for thought...
What if the the government passed an infrastructure bill that focused on building a network of EV charging stations (aka infrastructure), and let people buy EVs on their own if they want to take advantage of the newly established "infrastructure."
Giving stimme or handouts to buy EVs has absolutely nothing to do with "infrastructure."
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7cbreeze (05-29-2021)
05-29-2021, 02:18 PM
#657
Senior Member
Sorry fella, not even close.
EVs enjoy a $7,500 federal tax credit plus additional state subsidies while evading the fuel tax which exceeds a combined dollar a gallon in some states. Petroleum based vehicles pay their own way while subsidizing other government functions.
EVs enjoy a $7,500 federal tax credit plus additional state subsidies while evading the fuel tax which exceeds a combined dollar a gallon in some states. Petroleum based vehicles pay their own way while subsidizing other government functions.
Let's see how : "Petroleum based vehicles pay their own way while subsidizing other government functions."
December 19, 2008: President Bush approved a bailout plan and gave General Motors and Chrysler $13.4 billion in financing from TARP (Troubled Assets Relief Program) funds, as well as $4 billion to be "withdrawn later".
The U.S. government lost $11.2 billion on its bailout of General Motors, according to a 2014 government report. The government invested about $50 billion to bail out GM as a result of the company's 2009 bankruptcy, and at one time held a 61 percent equity stake in the Detroit-based automaker.Nov 28, 2018
The Car Allowance Rebate System (CARS), colloquially known as "cash for clunkers", was a $3 billionU.S. federalscrappage program intended to provide economic incentives to U.S. residents to purchase a new, more fuel-efficient vehicle when trading in a less fuel-efficient vehicle. The program was promoted as a post-recession stimulus program to boost auto sales while putting more fuel-efficient vehicles on the roadways.
If the government can subsidize one part of the auto manufacturing process, why not another part? Or are ICE engines sacred for the oil industry?
And the subsidies that the dino fuel industry has gotten over the years, well, let's see.
Tax subsidies for oil, gas and coal development are expected to reduce federal revenue by $11.5 billion from 2019 to 2023 (figure 1). ... Integrated oil and gas companies may deduct 70 percent of these costs in the first year and recover the remaining 30 percent over the next five years.
Oil companies can—and often do—defer federal tax payments. ... Oil companies are able to deduct such significant portions of their revenues through a tax provision labeled the “depletion allowance,” which was passed in 1926. The 2017 Tax and Reform Act lowered the tax rate for U.S. corporations, including deferred taxes.
How much does the US subsidize the oil industry?
A conservative estimate from Oil Change International puts the U.S. total at around $20.5 billion annually, including $14.7 billion in federal subsidies and $5.8 billion in state-level incentives.Nov 25, 2020
A conservative estimate from Oil Change International puts the U.S. total at around $20.5 billion annually, including $14.7 billion in federal subsidies and $5.8 billion in state-level incentives.Nov 25, 2020
And you want to argue about a $7,500 BEV incentive FOR CUSTOMERS, not CORPORATIONS? Give me a break!
So if my head is in the sand, where is yours??
05-29-2021, 04:15 PM
#658
Senior Member
It would be great to stay positive on Lightning news, instead of all the negativity.
Something like this.
Amazing if it is correct.
Something like this.
MKBHD video just dropped with some new info:
Ford tells him the 230 and 300 mile ranges are with a 1K payload. The truck he got to drive and play around with was showing an estimated range of 367 miles at 80% so that would mean a 100% full range of 460 miles!
Ford tells him the 230 and 300 mile ranges are with a 1K payload. The truck he got to drive and play around with was showing an estimated range of 367 miles at 80% so that would mean a 100% full range of 460 miles!
05-29-2021, 06:30 PM
#659
Senior Member
It would be great to stay positive on Lightning news, instead of all the negativity.
Something like this.
Amazing if it is correct.
https://youtu.be/J2npVg9ONFo
Something like this.
Amazing if it is correct.
https://youtu.be/J2npVg9ONFo
It's also odd that Ford didn't mention that during the reveal. 450+ miles of range would have gotten a lot more people a lot more excited but they decided to underrate it by 150+ miles? It's possible, but I find it a bit hard to believe...especially considering Ford's long tradition of overrating efficiency.
05-29-2021, 06:36 PM
#660
Well in order to compensate for the much heavier chassis, I suspect they built the battery a little bigger so as to compete with the other extended range units out there.
It would be great if the range does exceed 300 miles and even top 400!
(and yes, if the conspiracy theorists could start their own thread?)
It would be great if the range does exceed 300 miles and even top 400!
(and yes, if the conspiracy theorists could start their own thread?)